Bojana and Harsha delve into a topic very close to our hearts - choosing the right vocal coach. For both of them, they were fortunate to have good teachers that were supportive and allowed them to explore. However, not everyone would have the fortune of meeting the right teachers!

In this episode, they explore what is a good vocal coach, and what makes a good vocal coach. Also, they talk about their own personal needs as students and what gives them the right support that they need.

One of the most important aspects of learning to sing is finding the right vocal coach for you and this is the episode that shares with you how.

Transcription

Harsha 0:00

Hello, Hi, welcome to the TVS podcast. My name is Harsha.

Bojana 0:05

Welcome. My name is Bojana.

Harsha 0:06

Yes, Bojana. Okay, so today we're talking about coaches and what makes a good vocal coach. Right, and what the right qualities of a good vocal coach? And also, how do we know that vocal coach is suitable for us? So,

Bojana 0:21

where to start from? Okay, let's take

the importance. I mean, the elements that make a vocal coach - good.

Harsha 0:31

Okay, so just the top of your head, what's the first thing that comes up?

Bojana 0:35

All right, I've got quite a few things. The first thing that came into my mind is experience. That's a very broad subject though. I will elaborate on this, it could be experienced as a vocal coach who sits in the classroom every day for a long time meeting different students with a, you know, variety of issues. Or eventually someone who also has done performances as well. Because being a performer and a vocal coach, yes, it is a different thing. But performances also give you a way of learning a lot for the young voices. So experience meaning someone who knows their own voice and you know, work through it its way. Through the singing.

Harsha 1:07

Ya, I completely agree. Like basically someone who has spent a lot of time with their own instrument to understanding and feeling the instrument, because you know, we can study about it, but how much time have you spent applying it and feeling what happens? Right with your apparatus?

Bojana 1:36

Yeah, second thing is tolerance that came to my mind just now. Honesty.

Number three,

Harsha 1:47

tolerance in the sense that Patience, patience. Okay, so like, I mean, being understanding of the student. Yeah. And what the student is going through. Yeah. And that comes with experience, right. Because only if you have been through it, you will understand and you will empathise and-

Bojana 2:01

Yeah, that's very true. Yeah. Thanks for that. Yeah, I mean, tolerance means that, you know, being a singer is a can be quite a demanding, and sensitive thing to do. So tolerance is important, though, at least for me during my journey. I didn't have too many teachers, because I didn't want to change a lot. But I did have like three over the last, many over years. So if someone was impatient, I would usually not like to work with that coach. Because I needed my space for exploration to be able to express myself. So that's also important.

Harsha 2:45

Yeah, very important. Because if I mean, I can imagine, if we are going to be impatient, the student will feel more clamped up and uncomfortable. But in singing, you need to be free. You need that space like you said,

Bojana 2:59

yeah. Any, any, anything from you? How about your personal experience?

Harsha 3:06

Like I feel Oh, yeah. So like you had three coaches? Right? I've had two coaches, as well. Yeah. So one was a classical Indian classical teacher, and one was a pop vocal teacher. And both of them were very, very patient. And I learned that they would always give me they would always give me space to try. So they would always be like, okay, because they understand that I must try it a few times in order to understand and feel what they're trying to make me feel. So in that process, it's not like, Oh, do ABC, and then I do ABC. And obviously, the first time someone might not get it, because it's their first time trying ABC. So they have to try ABC a few times, while the coach just observes and says, you know, yeah, repeat yourself - try it a few more times, because I can see you exploring and feeling Yeah, but I think the most important thing is that the coach must highlight, they we're doing, that a student is doing this consciously. So if they're going to do it, without the awareness, then it might, they might not, they might not realise what they're doing, they might not reflect on the feeling. But if they are going to be present, and really trying ABC exercise, with awareness and consciousness, that's when they might actually feel something and remember it, remember the sensation. Yeah.

Bojana 4:25

And that's very, very true. Very, very good.

Harsha 4:27

Yeah. Communication, I guess communication is important. Yes,

Bojana 4:29

yes, yes -

Harsha 4:31

Because its feelings, right? about the apparatus. So we can only explain so much. But at the end of the day, the student has to feel. So it's finding the right balance between communication and providing support and guidance, and then stepping back to let them try.

Bojana 4:46

Yes, stepping back. Exactly. Yeah, that's true. That's true. I think we kind of agree on this one a lot. Yep. That's, that's, that's definitely true. So um, shouldn't male students learn from male coaches? Or female one's?

Harsha 5:05

I mean, we both have male students.

Bojana 5:06

Yeah, yeah actually

Harsha 5:08

- doesn't, I would feel it doesn't make a difference. So much of a difference. Unless the student feels like he wants to, wants to, can't, is unable to make that, you know, like, for example we are doing the exercises or the scales, he feels too confused, and is unable to distinguish or would feel like he, he would learn better if he had a male voice to emulate, copy or imitate to understand the sensation, maybe then also placements become an issue sometimes, right?

Bojana 5:40

Yes, that's true, especially in the beginner in the beginner phases. Male students tend to not be able to recognise, this is what have experienced a lot. And I'm sure you have as well right. Your students when they are not able to see the difference between which octave they have to sing in. So you know, if you're really new, and if you really want, you need maybe more time to, you know, just to produce the tone and get to the right pitch, then maybe a male coach will be the good thing for you. If you notice that you're struggling with this particular issue that Harsha just mentioned, yeah, I think that's, that's one reason to go for a male coach, if you're a male. However, in the end of the day, it's a personal choice. Yeah. Or it can be customised. You might have a reason why you would like to, you know, be with a male coach or with a female coach. It's up to you really, but it's not- generally it's not an important thing. If you don't have a direction there, oh you must go with a male or we must go with a female. That's not important no.

So it really depends on the individuals starting point and personal level of comfort in imagining the notes and how to project and how to sing it out. Right? Yeah,

yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So

Harsha 7:03

talking about vocal coaches. You had three. So did you like them all? Like what they good is like, Yes. Great. Did you have any experience with a vocal coach? That was not so positive? Oh, yeah. Okay. So why was it not positive? Because we've talked, we've spoken about the good. So then what was that? Not so good element that made us feel like, Oh, this is not the kind of coach I want to be or like , you know, anyone should be?

Bojana 7:28

That's a good question. Thank you. Okay, we cannot discover, you know, identities, of course, yeah. I, I must say that all of them very good in what they were doing. They were professional enough, they had a lot of experience, they knew their craft, they knew what they're doing. Just the problem with me personally, I mean, it's a character thing, you know, so it was important for me to be able to click with them. Whereas with one of those, I couldn't really, you know, click say, but I have a lot of appreciation. Because I did learn a lot. Okay, you know, from the technical aspect of things there was there was a lot of learning from that perspective. But I wasn't feeling you know, free, maybe. But also, you have to be very serious in mind and a serious vocal student, if you are getting with someone who's very, very strict, and doesn't allow you much space and things like that, because you just have to be mature enough, maybe it was a question of my own maturity, because this was happening many years ago. But I absolutely respect the teachers, because I know I myself as a teacher, you are as well, you know, what it takes, how it is, and the end of the day, we all have different characters. So we have to be respective to to the other, our coaches as well, so and have to see who you are, in a way and what you, what clicks for you and doesn't.

Harsha 9:01

Yeah. And I guess the coach might have different goals for you. Or the coach is coming from a different place or so. Yeah. Like they had a different kind of upbringing and training. And so now they feel that that way is the best, or-

Bojana 9:14

Yeah, yeah, that can happen. So if that clicks with what's your best way? Then that can be a problem with this per se, strict coach that you you, you know, yeah, you get?

Harsha 9:24

Yeah. If not, I mean, I think one advice for the students would always to go in with an open mind. And to not, not feel as if the vocal coach is, I mean, of course, we respect all vocal coaches. But you have to go in with an "what do I like? How do I feel at the end of the class? And is this working out for me? am I listening to the- Am I not open enough to understand or to appreciate where the coach is coming from? Or is it that I really don't agree with this style of doing this " Two different things.

Bojana 9:58

Yes, yes. Yeah, you have to differentiate? Do I like the coach, or like, say, I don't like the coach, but I'm getting a lot of, you know, good insights, and I'm learning. So if that's the case, then we would advice I would advise, go for that, you know, go for the coach, that may be something that you don't really, you know, appreciate character wise, because in the - we're talking about, maybe something that's not related to singing, but we are kind of describing the characters of coaches, but it is important because we work one on one. Yeah, yeah. So this is why we're discussing i think. Right. Right. This kind of thing.

Harsha 10:32

Because if you don't feel comfortable around a coach, then even though there's learning it's not good, long term, maybe, for your growth as a, you know, musician or singer who wants to improvise in the future, right? Yeah.

Bojana 10:47

Yeah. In just one with one word, as you say, growth. You just mentioned growth, yeah look, someone who will make you grow in whichever way you think you should be growing.

Harsha 10:57

Yeah. Singing, as a human, as an artist and a performer. All aspects. Yeah.

Good. Interesting. Yeah. So I think encouraging teachers, you know, yeah, cuz some people, some teachers might say something harsh. And then students hold on to that for very long.

Bojana 11:17

Yes, did you-. Can you mention that example that you wanted to share.

Harsha 11:20

Yeah, so we had, I had a student who said that he didn't sing for one whole year, because of something -like a music teacher at school said that his voice was not good. So for an entire year, the students stayed away from singing. There is nothing wrong with his voice. I mean, I mean, there's nothing medically wrong, there's nothing. Nothing that cannot be worked on. Right. And it's not even wrong. It's just everyone is using their voice differently. And so I can't understand, I couldn't even understand why the teacher would say something like that. But then I guess, whatever reason, or context, but then you see students, we want to tell you guys, if you're listening or watching, don't take it to heart. You know, you always have to understand that your coach is coming from a certain place. And you should seek other opinions speak to other people find out more, before getting before getting to hurt and holding on to that one experience. Yeah,

Bojana 12:16

Yeah, yeah. It is hard though, because you know, the voice is a very personal thing. We all have different voices. There's no two same voices in this world, right? So it's very personal. This is why you know, you're getting you, you just taking it personally. But as you advised them, we have to try and be objective, right? Yes, so. Yeah. Good advice, though. Okay, what some else did we have to talk about was the

Harsha 12:44

Oh right. online courses? Yeah, like self learning music, right. Yeah. Have you seen any of these YouTube cover? like YouTube videos where they're teaching singing?

Bojana 12:54

Yeah, there's a lot lately. And they come to my, to my YouTube channel creeping in? That's

Harsha 12:59

In the recommendations right? Yeah, you must be like, Hey, what are you talking about?

Bojana 13:04

You must be like, another one like me?

Harsha 13:07

You think I - Yeah, but also, it's like, I mean, you have many years of experience. So I mean, I can't even imagine, YouTube should get punished for recommending these to you.

Bojana 13:16

That doesn't matter. As you said, you have to understand them, they come from a different different perspective.

Harsha 13:23

But that's what I'm, so I actually did spend, like a few months learning from online videos, I would just go and watch different things because you need to understand-

Bojana 13:32

it does help, of course that it helps you know, if you have no clue for certain things, if you really want to, you know, learn and if you want to find the exercises that are working for you, we can I can give a recommendation. I just think whatever you try on YouTube, if you see that, for example, a particular exercise, if you see that it works for you, and it doesn't harm your vocal throat, then go for it. Try you know, experiment with those, that's absolutely fine. That's one thing. So yeah, you can definitely do the YouTube on online videos. But um, another thing is few points here, if you find a coach that you really want to work with, and he's miles away, or she is miles away, then maybe the only means of working with that coach would be through Skype, Skype, or FaceTime, FaceTime online. So that's, that's a reason good reason to, you know, go for for for lessons with that coach. And another thing is, if you want something in particular that you cannot get from where you are physically, then yeah, go buy online. Go with the with an online coach . Connection matters. Okay. This is something that, you know, my students that I was teaching online, I, I all I knew them all personally. Before we went to the -

Harsha 14:56

online thing, so you guys had met before, and then you guys parted for i guess whatever travelling reasons.

Bojana 15:01

They've seen me performing, singing, doing workshops? And then after that, you know, so thats just.

Harsha 15:06

Okay cool. And when you're teaching online, does it affect the audio quality? You can hear the students? Right, most importantly, you can hear them and you can understand whats happening?

Bojana 15:14

Yeah, there was there was a bit of scepticism around, you know, it still is, but it really is connected to your hearing. So we take some time for a coach to be able to hear us to where the voice is coming from. So if you if you feel comfortable as a coach, then then yeah. You can you can do.

Harsha 15:35

Cool, and that is the difference between just watching videos on yourself by yourself. And going for one on one lessons, whether it's online, or whether it's in a school, is that you have someone listening to you, and helping you to identify and become aware of what exactly you're doing. Yeah. So the danger, like the drawback in doing these exercises, completely alone, using YouTube is one you might hurt yourself, right. Or you might have like some habits which creeping in, which shouldn't or don't need to be coming in. And that's only because everyone's level of awareness with their body is different. Right. And also, if you are going for lessons, if you are going for lessons or like looking up these things online, there is a reason why, you know? Maybe because you want to improve, you want to grow. But sometimes, we might not be at that stage to understand the exercise or what the coach is saying. So I think what I would recommend is to watch what you can understand at that point, if this person online is saying something that I can understand. And okay, then I want to try, like you said, experiment, then experiment it. But I would say never do it without a mirror. Yeah, always do it in front of a mirror. Because if you want to make sure that you're trying your best to understand and try this exercise, then do it in front of the mirror. Because sometimes some students I mean, some of us even you know, we don't know what we're doing. We think we are doing it, but we might not be-

Bojana 16:58

yeah, very good point yeah. That's very true.

Harsha 17:01

Do it in front of a mirror. It shouldn't hurt you like what you said, Yeah. What else?

Bojana 17:06

Go for it. If If you know the coach, if it's recommendation, if it's someone that you really want to be with? That's number three. And yeah, these three things. Yeah.

Harsha 17:17

So what happened with me when I was younger, and I was looking at these YouTube videos is that after like, three, four months of doing exercises online, on my own, I felt like I had met a -

Like, I wanted to grow, but I couldn't grow after a certain point.

And that's when I was like, I cannot do this on my own anymore, I have to go to a coach, because only another human will be able to tell me how I can move forward from here because I had reached my capacity. Right? And then I met a coach and then the coach helped me to, to improve my listening and to you know, you need sometimes you need an outsider point to tell you,

Bojana 17:55

Absolutely, it doesn't matter how experienced you are. It doesn't matter how many years you spend in teaching performing, or singing or anything. You You really have to be able to, to have that person, the professional who's going to take you step forward, we need it as well. So we all need to grow. That's very important. Yeah. So yeah,

Harsha 18:13

Yep. I think that's when people should make the shift from watching videos online to going for a class, whether it's online class, or whether it's a physical class, but yeah, getting heard by someone and getting feedback based on that.

Bojana 18:28

Another thing, perhaps is if you're taking an online lesson with a coach that at some point, it will be good that you reconnect physically. You know, if you want to take lessons for two years, for instance, with someone, it would be good that in those two years, you have a chance to meet physically. That's also another another thing. Okay, do we have?

Did you have a good vocal coach before? And why was that? Oh, good.

Harsha 18:52

Like I said, because they would give me the space. And I would feel like, I'm understanding things. Maybe even after when I go back home, and I'm trying these exercises that they taught me, and I come back, and then I can understand better what they were trying to say to me, right? Like, for example, when they said that, oh, you know, you're going a bit nasal, for example. So then I would be like, okay, so I started by identifying it first. And then slowly, I would listen to the advice, and I would change some things. And then I realised that, oh, it's actually just being aware of it and slowly making the switch, consciously making the effort. So I guess it's also because they were not too impatient or intolerant. Like, you know, they gave the space to understand that as humans, we take time to reflect and to change you know. So-

Bojana 19:50

yeah, our bodies carry memory, right. So we need time to like, process the information. So that we make it a memory, meaning that, you know, we have to repeat it many times, as you see, we have able to identify that, which I've said, since it's very, very true thing. Now, for me, my best vocal coach is the what is was the one that I knew cared for me. So it was very important, that was a very personal thing. Because I identify so strongly with the singing voice that if someone was not caring for me and was too strict or bossy that that I would take that as a very personal so the teacher was very, like caring for me and taking care of, you know, my well being despite from you know, giving the lessons only then then I think that's a good coach. Because you can actually feel free to, you know, as you say, to, they give you space, to be who you are, you know, by just caring for you.

Harsha 20:57

Yea, by showing you that they have your best interest in heart, in mind right, they want the best for you. So then you won't, and they've been kind, so you won't be afraid to give, in, during lessons. Right? You will give more, you will make more mistakes, and then they can help you more. Yeah, so it's like, a two way process as well. Yeah, right. As a coach, if your coach is providing you with space, then you will give more you will make more mistakes. And sometimes we also need to hold their hands and be like come here, make the mistakes. Yeah, right. Because they will be - even if you're kind, they might still feel shy, or they might not be kind to themselves, right as students, as learners. So I think we have to hold their hand and be like, you can make mistakes. It's okay.

Bojana 21:40

It's okay. Yeah. You can also allow yourself to fix the time to fix the mistakes. That's fine. But we will care. We will care. That's, that's what I do. Yeah. Cool. What are you- did we not mention .. bad vocal coach?

Harsha 21:51

Oh, we did we did, we spoke about them just now- okay. Yeah. The ones who are, you know, too rigid, and like, didn't give us space? And like, told mean , i mean told us harsh statements or?

Bojana 22:09

Yeah, well, good, bad. Beautiful, ugly. I mean, I think we Yeah,

Harsha 22:15

Yeah, we should just understand that they're coming from a different place. And do we want this advice? Or do we want to ask other people or like, you know, before we -

Bojana 22:27

we have to reflect, yeah, we have to reflect on everything and then make a decision, you know, who we going to carry with? Um, and Yeah, I think so far, we covered our few few important points. We answered a few questions. Do you have anything else in mind Harsha?

Harsha 22:47

No, I think it's just, you can reach out to us at the vocal studio and find out more about about the vocal coaches we have here. I mean, you've heard from Bojana, you've heard from me, we have two other coaches, three other coaches, fantastic people. And everyone has their own different styles and techniques. But I think at the end of the day, at vocal studio, we all emphasise on us finding your inner voice, you know, our students inner voices, and also on fine tuning our own inner voices constantly. Because the journey never ends. And you just have to keep growing even as coaches.

Bojana 23:21

Keep on going, you know, just keep on walking. Don't give up. If whatever bad experiences you have, you can always you know, contact us even if we are not, if you decided to I don't know not been listening, or anything. We're very happy to answer your question. We're just there, we're just there. We care for you know, your voice. Yeah. As I said, so yeah. I really hope that I'm also caring enough for my students. Yeah. And I want to thank everyone, then.

Harsha 23:50

Yeah, thank you for giving us the experience of being vocal coaches as well, right. As we see more students coming in we learn from them, and then we can inform the other students about what's happening with other people. Absolutely. So it's fantastic. So today, we spoke about what makes a good vocal coach, whether male students can have male or female students - female coaches, and-

Bojana 24:13

elements that are important for a good vocal coach.

Harsha 24:15

Yeah. What should you be looking for in a coach and you should be reflecting on whether a coach is good for you, or whether you would want to give it time or, you know,

Bojana 24:26

yeah, the difference between YouTube online courses and having local private lessons, give you a little insight of our experiences. And thank you very much then.

Harsha 24:34

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Bojana. Well, it was a pleasure talking to you on this podcast. Great.